Pope Francis has reiterated in a new interview that Ukraine should negotiate an end to the war with Russia, but this time the language he used — adopting his interviewer’s expression, “white flag” — has drawn attention and raised questions about Was the Pope suggesting this? Ukraine recognized.
On Saturday night, the Vatican spokesman, Matteo Bruni, immediately clarified that the Pope meant “truce and dialogue,” not surrender, when he said the white flag, to give a universal symbol.
But the pope’s words and others he used during the interview underscored how the Vatican has left many Ukrainian officials and supporters struggling to understand its position.
At the beginning of the war, many Ukrainians expressed displeasure with Francis, especially with Russia and its president, Vladimir V. Putin refused to call the dispute as an aggressor.
Francis eventually became more vocal in expressing support for what he came to call “martyr Ukraine,” referring to Russia’s aggression and praying for Ukraine’s innocent victims. But the Vatican had also sought to avoid sides in the war, in part to preserve the possibility that it might be called upon to negotiate a peace treaty, a prospect that many geopolitical analysts consider illusory.
Francis used the term white flag in a television interview taped in February with the Swiss television channel RSI. The topic of the interview was white. An interviewer asked Francis if he believed that in Ukraine “there is a need for surrender, in this case the white flag,” or if such surrender would only legitimize the actions of the powerful.
According to footage of the interview provided by the public broadcaster, which is scheduled to air later this month, Francis responded that fear of the motivation for aggression was “an interpretation, that’s true. But I think the most powerful It is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people, and has the courage to white flag and talk.
Mr. Bruni said the Pope was using the image suggested by the interviewer that “the end of hostilities, peace reached with the courage of negotiations.” He pointed out that later in the interview, Francis said, “Dialogue is never a weapon.”
But in that same sentence, Francis calls the dialogue “the courage not to bring a country to its own self-destruction.”
The pope has made other statements that have unsettled Ukrainian officials and supporters, once saying there was a secret Vatican “mission” to bring peace to the conflict. His habit of giving audiences to allies and officials of Mr Putin’s government and his condemnation of the arms trade – when Kiev needs weapons for self-defense – have also damaged some Ukrainians’ confidence in the pope’s cause. in support.
In an interview with RSI, Francis said that today “can negotiate with the help of international powers, they are there, aren’t they? The word negotiation, it is a bold word.
He added, “When you see that you are defeated, things are not going well, you must have the courage to talk.”
“And you are ashamed of yourself?” For talks, he continued, adding that if instead, one continues on the same path, “how many die, and then? In the end it will be even worse.”
He added that it is critical to “negotiate in time, find some country that can act as a mediator.”
“Today, for example,” he continued, “in the war in Ukraine, there are many who want to mediate, right? Turkey, for example. Don’t be shy to speak up before things get bad.
Francis himself has often tried to position the Vatican as such an intermediary. Asked in the interview if he would be willing to play such a role, he replied: “I’m here, period.” I said it.”
Mr Bruni, the Vatican spokesman, added on Saturday that the Pope remained hopeful that a diplomatic solution could be reached for a “just and lasting peace”.